Monday, June 2, 2008

The VBTA's Litany Of Lies On Light Rail

Over the weekend Virginia Beach Taxpayers Alliance (VBTA) Transportation Chairman Reid Greenmun gave us a circus on light rail. You can read his comments here

Among his lies:

1. Why toll the Downtown Tunnel over Midtown Tunnel improvements?

It's the law, which he later admits he knew all along.

2. Approved light rail goes nowhere near the Midtown Tunnel.

It goes within a few hundred yards of it.

3. The port is the main beneficiary of expanding the Midtown Tunnel.

Yeah, it must have nothing to do with the thousands of cars that back up there daily.

4. He claims three tubes would be built at the Midtown Tunnel, costing "hundreds of millions of dollars."

No, the Portsmouth City Council has requested light rail accomodations through the second tube, not a third tube.

5. His first post is Messneresque, with smears by innuendo.

It reads like a Talknet post by the "Official Spokesperson". Fittingly, Greenmun was formerly the pencil-pusher for Messner.

Also, notice how Reid Greenmun simply ignores the law when it doesn't fit his extremist political agenda:

1. He wants to separate the Downtown and Midtown Tunnels for tolling, a violation of state law.

2. He wants to place a surcharge on bus riders to pay for light rail, a violation of Federal law.

The bottom line: the VBTA is going to lie about anything and everything to try to stop construction of a regional light rail network, yet alone extending it into Virginia Beach.


Michael Ragsdale said...

This gave me plenty of laughs. Perhaps Reid should move to Vancouver, BC so he could have his "elevated/automated" system (the Vancouver SkyTrain).

I think it's time for the VBTA to go someplace (we all know where, but I can't say it per Blogger rules), but then how would everyone get in a dose of laughs?

If the recent troll attacks on me didn't make everyone laugh, this surely will.

Anonymous said...

What else would you expect from the VBTA? Fortunately their numbers seem to be dwindling.

Anonymous said...

Henry, when it comes to spreading "lies" - you sure lead the way. This thread is full of them.

I asked you questions, you did not answer.

And - "the law" you that you cite that claims to makes two different tunnels into one tunnel is HB 3202. Face it, that's laughable. HB 3202 is the same bad bill the VA Supreme Court struck down as having created unconstitutional regional taxing authorities.

No one has yet challeneged the obvious sham when HB 3202 attempts to create "one tunnel" out of two tunnels. Clealry a lame attempt to work around Federal law prohibioting tolling a facility when it is not improved.

Lastly, if federal law prohibits changing transit riders (buses) for the cost of light rail (by raising bus fares) then the federal law is flawed and needs to be changed.

Simply because it is a "law" does not mean it is right, just, or Constitutional.

In this case, you and Mr. Ragsdale advocate for taxpayer funded Light Rail, but you don't answer the question I ask regarding if you feel that HRT transit riders (buses) should pay higher fares to cover the cost of the transit you are advocating. You duck the question and go off on a tagnet, hiding behind some flawed "law".

It appears to me that you want others to pay for the transit systems that you seek to have built.

It sure is easy to demand Light Rail when you don't have to pay for it.

Lastly, enough with the name calling.


Avenging Archangel said...


It's a waste of time to discuss a funding scheme that can't be legally implemented.

For all your crying, should I send you a box of Kleenex?

Anonymous said...

Again, rhetoric and no answers from the VBTA.

Anyone who knows anything about mass transit knows that ALL mass transit is subsidized. You can't charge enough at the farebox.

It is one of those "greater good" things that we have. Which is exactly what the VBTA opposes.

Hopefully they will crawl back in their hole after their November city council losses.

Michael Ragsdale said...

Yeah, it's time for the VBTA to go back into it's little "cave". The sooner the better.

What part of fareboxes never cover enough do you not get? This is the case for ANY transit system, not just HRT.

BTW: our taxes (yes, even the taxes Henry & I - and even you - pay) pay for Light Rail, so what do you mean "others pay for light rail"?

Name calling? Please pass that on to the troll who attacked me not too long ago.

I can spare you a tissue also.

Anonymous said...

Reid: Would you like some cheese with that wine?

Anonymous said...

Jessica, you are right about the whining on this blog - but it isn't coming from me as much as it does from the "regulars" that haught this tiny corner of cyber space. LOL!


Anonymous said...

BTW Reid: Why didn't you accept Henry's gift?

Yes, I posted before I lived on Route 25, so you may ask how I got home: the outbound 20 took me to my brother's place on 43rd St.

Anonymous said...

Two mortal enemies exchange gifts!!??

Anonymous said...

And the Pilot can't spell the TLP guy's name properly. hehehe

Obviously I'm not anti-transit, but still they should get the guy's name right.

Avenging Archangel said...


I wished you had come over and introduced yourself. Michael had been wondering if you would come.

Anon 10:05,

My sharp political differences with Reid stem from where Virginia Beach is to go.

I formerly was a hotel night auditor for 7 1/2 years, so I can read numbers and draw the conclusions. The 2000 Census numbers were stark, and I've spent 7 years thinking about the consequences. Urbanization has begun, and good management requires changing city policy to reflect the new realities.

On the other hand, Reid and his VBTA cohorts believe urbanization is a conspiracy. Comical that so-called "Libertarians" adamantly oppose the natural progression of the market. Their agenda might have made sense if Virginia Beach had taken a sharp right a generation ago. The changing demographics would have marginalized them, but their own behavior is putting a fast forward on it.

We have demographic and developmental urbanization in progress. The big leap is political urbanization.

Anonymous said...

I was about ready to say something, but my brother called just when you handed Reid your "gift". Next thing I knew, you two were gone. I didn't realize who you were until the end (the tissue box being rejected - as I was heading up to check out unclaimed property - was the giveaway).

Anonymous said...


The 10:38 post was right on. VB is changing and it will take constructive people to help.

The VBTA will not have a part in this. While they have some clearly intelligent people (like Reid) I really think that after their losses this November, they will continue to disintegrate. CACI is all but gone, and the VBTA seems to be the same half dozen people.

If the VBTA sheds itself of Moss, O'Connor, McMullen and Dean and becomes legitimate (like the Norfolk Tea Party 2), they will have a seat at the grown-ups table.

Avenging Archangel said...

Anon 11:30,

The 2008 election will do to the VBTA what the 2000 election did to CACI. By Thanksgiving the VBTA will be a spent farce.

I've posed this question to Reid a couple times and he's ducked it, "In 2007, how did NTP2 win in urban Norfolk while the VBTA failed in largely suburban Virginia Beach?" The answer will tell you the VBTA is doomed.

On personalities, I agree on Dean, McMullen, and O'Connor. I disagree on Moss and Greenmun. Moss was once his own man; if he can make a clean break from Dean, he could be of help. Greenmun is too far right and a conspiracy theorist.