Thursday, January 6, 2011

Transportation Tidbits From 1/5/11

I attended two transportation meetings yesterday, and picked up some things from them:

1. You've probably read about the "Patriots' Crossing" a pared-down portion of The Third Crossing. One thing that should sound alarms with mass transit advocates: the multimodal portion of The Third Crossing isn't in the Patriots' Crossing. We need a rail tunnel under the harbor for light rail, in order to relieve tunnel congestion. While you might be able to go back and build it later, the Patriots' Crossing could either preclude it or make it much more expensive.

2. The market is there for the Port of Virginia to increase it's business 200%-300% by 2025. Yet the usual suspects continue to whine about transportation improvements that could benefit the port.

3. Only 5% of containers moving inland from the port go by barge, with Federal law effectively blocking any significant increase in that percentage. We're going to need more road and railroad capacity for moving the containers.

4. The proposed move of Hampton Roads Transit's (HRT) downtown Norfolk transfer center from Cedar Grove to Wood Street has been pushed back one week, to April 24. That's to coincide with the beginning of a new pay period for bus Operators, as there will be cost differences involved.

5. Any bus riders interested, seats are available on HRT's Transit Riders Advisory Committee (TRAC). See the TRAC page on HRT's website for more information on the committee.


James Peterson said...

Looking forward to the April Board. Rather the Wood Street change coincide with a Board Change

Question: last you posted, you talked about routing changes, but not in detail. Do you have any more details now? I'm very interested in learning about the 2, 4, and 16 as I'm going to be starting ODU in the fall.

May be off topic, but does HRT have any college bus passes? (I have family living in Kirkland, Washington - near Seattle, Washington - and they have what's called the UPASS: unlimited bus and train rides on ALL area transit systems)

thesh00ter said...

so i should've known the "Patriot's Crossing" (stupid name) wasn't the full version of the 3X. so what now, the TPO is giving into the "no mass transit" revolution? this region is pathetic.

Avenging Archangel said...


ODU has a buss pass for it's students that it buys from HRT.

No, I haven't seen anything more detailed on the routes.


It's VDOT behind the Patriots' Crossing, not the TPO.

Anonymous Coward said...

James: $50 per Semester and it's your choice of a bus pass or parking pass. It is one of ODU's required fees. Note that (unless someone knows something I don't), any MAX rides are an additional $1.50 with the pass

thesh00ter said...

AA: no wonder the idea stinks

well i know what u said in the post but is it still possible to add the mass transit portion? if not later? and please explain to me why PPP's (if that's the right acronym)aren't considered for any mass transit around here?

Avenging Archangel said...


Whether or not multimodal could be done later would depend on the exact engineering of the Patriots' Crossing. Sticking to that portion of the original 3x plan, they could. However, the plan could be adjusted in a manner that would preclude it.

That's why I said be on alert about the Patriots' Crossing, but not necessarily oppose it - for now.

The bigger issue here is that VDOT has thrown multimodal under the bus first with Midtown Tunnel expansion plans, now the Patriots' Crossing.

PPTAs could be oonsidered, but where does the private investor recoup their money?

thesh00ter said...

then what can we do then? just sit back and take it like always? VDOT screws us again.

Jessica Clark said...

Patriot's Crossing, an idea to include mass transit:

1. Delaware Route 1: where it's two lanes per direction, all bridges have support columns extending out into the center to allow for a future third lane per direction. Instead of a traffic lane, the Patriot's Crossing could use that for light rail. An example can be seen here on Google Maps:,-75.593013&spn=0.002445,0.005681&t=h&z=18
2. Interstate 90 between Seattle, Washington and Mercer Island, Washington. The Center Roadway was always designed to be converted to "High Capacity / Fixed Guideway" transit

thesh00ter said...

sry i'm a little peaved right now Henry. with all that's going on at HRT, it's doing nothing but feeding the fire of the "haters". but about PPTA's (thank u for the correction) i was thinking possibly priority on TOD's. much like they do in Japan. besides restaurants and stores at and close by the stops, greater developments as well within a half mile or more radius of the alignment (or whatever else is consider a feasible walking distance). the mass transit tube (assuming that's the only one they had planned) to NN would be perfect for the investor to gain revenue. even though i don't know how much of that property near there they've sold. the Norfolk would work too. maybe not as much development as the NN but the truck drivers are still there for them to gain a good amount of revenue. i know it's not as easy as it sounds but i think something has to be done since the state doesn't see it as necessary to add mass transit to the region. even though they support the Norfolk alignment (at the moment that's what we would like to believe, especially with all the HRT/Norfolk backlash) that's not enough. after all these years, DECADES, all they can put their trust in is just plain old white bread roads. plus with them letting VDOT ruin the show (yeah i meant say that versus "run") they'll never pull there heads out the "asphalt". (sorry i'm full of metaphors) my comment about the region wasn't about the people, but the leaders. i know there's ones out there that fight as hard as they can. Oder is one of them i can think of especially over here at the Peninsula. but him and the others that are fighting for better transportation aren't getting any backing. i have a feeling this next Transportation session is gonna about as big as a joke as the last one. so that's the only reason why, the only reason, i believe a PPTP would help to a degree. at least with connecting the region. as far as the transportation from city to city, that'll have to be planned later. i also believe that mass transit through a tunnel would create a huge boost in the public transit in general. because a greater amount of people would be using it to get to their jobs from the light rail station. from there, it would just be a ripple effect and the demand for other modes of transportation would occur. but i'm just a young man with an active imagination

Anonymous said...

Noticing something on PilotOnline: Reid Greenmun calling everything he doesn't like "Patriot"

(for example, the new Downtown Norfolk library the "Patriot Library")

Avenging Archangel said...

Anon 6:01,

I could take that on a few levels:

1. No one who knows Greenmun would mistake his rants for the thoughts of a sane human being.

2. Why doesn't it surprise me that Reid opposes even a library?

3. Reid and his fellow VBTAers are great patriots: red necks, white sheets, and blue blood.

thesh00ter said...

so i were u able to understand anything outta all that gobbledy gook i typed? sry i just had a lot on my mind

Anonymous said...

The Reid Patriot rubbish all started with the Patriot's Crossing. "Let's call everything we don't like Patriot" or some garbage like that

thesh00ter said...

my last comment was directed toward you actually Henry, lol. i forgot to put you name.

does anybody notice that with all the talk of Transportation, all we hear is the word "roads"? i'm starting to grow quite tired of that word. Why is it called a "Transportation Session" when only one form or mode or method of transportation is focused on? semi-rhetorical

Avenging Archangel said...


They're learning, albeit slowly.